Comments on: Interview with Israel Hershberg https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=interview-with-israel-hershberg perceptions on painting Sun, 18 Dec 2016 20:49:41 +0000 hourly 1 By: Claudia hexter https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-34541 Sun, 18 Dec 2016 20:49:41 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-34541 In reply to Larry.

The road to becoming an artist who eventually realizes that the goal ( in all human pursuits) is the never-ending road is the engine which encourages
continual growth. The manner in which one learns is immaterial. At different times in both each of our individual voyages and those interwoven with both past and future travelers are but facets of the condition which, for lack of a better word, is the definition of life.
In the same manner that we can never again enter the same river, so should our lives and work reflect the never ending development of both
ourselves and our expressions, in the same manner that Judaism lost
it’s ability to continue to be an ever-evolving philosophy when, our ancestors, in fear of losing the essence of our beliefs by freezing the religion to moment we were cast into the diaspera, was the moment that
Judaism began it’s slow march to death. The only manner to be able to continually receive sustenance for unending development is by realizing that we can never enter the same river twice and appreciating that that is the blessing which both is and was the gift we have given and hopefully will
be to forever give the children and the societies of the future.

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By: Why I (still) bother painting – Fruitful Dark https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-13763 Sun, 01 May 2016 12:00:51 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-13763 […] the Painting Perceptions interview with Israel Hershberg, mention is made of an interview by Calvin Tomkins of the New Yorker with the painter Albert York, […]

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By: Larry https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1135 Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:18:30 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1135 In reply to Noel Robbins.

Thank you Noel for your kind words. That’s great news that you’re considering joining us in Civita next summer. Despite my many years of experience and school, there was much I learned about ways to improve my painting. My experience studying with Israel Hershberg in Civita was an incredible experience – truly a life-changing event. I can’t recommend their program highly enough. I’ll send you more info by email soon and I’m planning a long article about the Civita program at some point in the near future.

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By: Noel Robbins https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1134 Fri, 02 Nov 2012 02:31:09 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1134 This coming summer I am hoping to make it to Civita Castellana to study with Mr. Hershberg. I did not know about this incredible artist and teacher until reading about the JSS on this life-changing blog – Thank you Larry for everything you are doing – You are one of my personal heroes. Anyway, I just read the interview with Mr. Hershberg and I feel compelled to share some of my thoughts in response even though so much time has passed since the original posting.

I am an adjunct professor of painting and drawing at Austin Community College in Texas where paintings and education of the magnitude displayed by Hershberg, Anderson, Dickenson and Hawthorne is scarce to non-existent. In my years of study and teaching I can say that everything Mr. Hershberg said about our current institutions of art is spot on. I have watched several artist’s careers decline over the past two decades after being given tenure. I have also watched artists commercially driven succeed for a while in particular galleries to only be dropped once their work fell out of favor. I am absolutely certain that those of us who continue to paint and learn about painting our whole lives are the lucky ones. Never so certain that we can ever really articulate the mystery that painting has brought into our lives we continue to learn from the colored goo that we smear with hairy sticks and knives and we share our experiences with fellows bitten by this bug. Whether from people sharing our actual space, videos or books our search for a semblance of an understanding of what painting is continues fueled by the “hunger of the eye.” While we can learn about all the techniques of painting and their historical and theoretical contexts it is in the realm of the philosophical that great teachers like Hershberg and Anderson shine. I have never met Mr. Anderson but I have learned through Larry’s wonderful work on this blog about what he calls “qualities.” I’ve linked to wonderful painters who studied with him like David Marshall, Lucy Barber and Diana Horowitz and understand what he means when he says this. I have watched your paintings change Larry due to your study with Hershberg and Anderson, and you have been making some absolutely beautiful pieces my friend. Anyway, what I trying to say is that the techniques are only a small part of what art education is about. More importantly is the gift of painting as a path to understanding relationships between people and the world. Perceptual painting is revelatory. It doesn’t matter if you use dead-coloring under glazes or go for fast gestural facture. Everything is an option in painting. To concern ourselves with technique and whether it is learned in person or via Youtube is to misunderstand completely the gospel of perceptual painting that is being offered to us by these incredible masters.

If anyone has information on grants for artists/teachers to study with great artists like Hershberg please send me links or phone numbers. My email address is artistnoelrobbins@gmail.com

Thank you so much Larry and Mr. Hershberg for everything you have done and continue to do. I hope to one day meet you both in person. I feel like I know you already.

Sincerely,
Noel

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By: alex kantor https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1133 Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:43:09 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1133 I wholeheartedly agree with everything IH has stated here and admire him, enormously, for his candor.
I have reread this interview several times now and am tempted to send a link to it to every pseudo classical atelier on earth (but they are cropping up so quickly that that might be a near impossibility).
The reason they are cropping up so quickly is because after a determinedly blinkered student of any such atelier has done their stretch of time painting figurines of aphrodite in a lightbox they have no alternative but to convert their garage in North Dakota into their own atelier in order to make a living without having to face reality or resuscitate their aesthetic.
It is an appalling situation and I am very glad that IH has come out and stated with such care and insight the fact that it is a dead religion for hacks and sentimental saps and definitely not the revival of a great lost tradition that it suckers people, many sincere and talented, into believing it is.
His comments on how official academia is even worse (placing the cart before the horse, whereas ateliers, small in number, stupidly place the cart before a slavish copy of a George Stubbs) is also right on and really does sum up what is a depressing situation for anyone with enough experience to look, with a sense of loss, at the direction that painting is headed in as a result of the state of ruin of most training establishments.
I was fortunate to receive my training from some old timers in Philadelphia and New York some years ago and there was never a sense of a broken tradition from Degas to Dickinson and the present (nor the artists that Degas and Dickinson studied in depth, like Mantegna, El Greco, etc.).
Somewhere along the line Jacob Collins (an English major at Columbia I believe) decided that he could formulate an erroneous improvisation of didactic step-by-step painting in order to ape a degraded pastiche of Arts L’art pompier of the most pedestrian order and then set up shop selling this unbelievably restricted method to the kinds of nervous and frightened art students who always minor in conservation studies to play it safe.
The internet has made all of this like a pestilence with so much shameless self aggrandizing and circle jerking lackeys chiming in about how they are so glad that art is finally measurable and something that certain wealthy idiots feel reassured about collecting again.
To the people who felt discouraged by what IH said regarding self instruction, that is too bad.
It does take sacrifice and courage and if you claim that you simply don’t have the cash to attend to real study then you obviously are either confused about what the life of a student is like or you are just making convenient excuses for being a dilettante.
It’s okay, frankly this kind of painting isn’t for everyone. In fact, few people I know who are painting full time think that anyone would really want to trade places with them if they knew what it has cost.
Thank god that there are still men like IH around and that he is healthy and teaching and sharing these things with people.
I really needed to hear his voice of reason.

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By: Jeff https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1132 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:06:02 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1132 First off I have to say thank you Larry for doing these wonderful interviews with some of my favorite painters.
My two cents worth on the education of painters, well if you can’t draw painting realism will be a difficult hill to climb. There are exceptions, but in my view one can move a lot faster if they find a good drawing teacher. I suppose one could learn from copying, but there is a nothing like having a good teacher to break away your conventions and bad habits. Life is short, why waste time with your ego in this regard.

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By: Neil Plotkin https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1131 Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:16:50 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1131 Great interview again Larry! Thank you and of course thank you Mr. Hershberg.

Just to jump in a bit about Larry’s comments about the different approach to painting in the ateliers vs. JSS. I have known so many people who run ateliers or who have studied in them or teach based upon them and I always found them to be so depressing and dead end. That is because they tend to be so backwards looking – Larry used the word “emulate”- and that’s just it. They approach painting as a lost art that if we could only get back to where Bougereau was we’d fix this art world that’s gone off the tracks. It’s as if painting has died and nothing has happened since the 19th century. And to dismiss all the fantastic painters of the 20th century and not build on them is just silly. It sounds like the JSS school teaches all of painting – learn the techniques: drawing, mixing correctly, and look at ALL of the history of painting – the abstract expressionists did as much interesting work as did the Dutch in their Golden Age.

I do think that most successful artists are self-taught in that they pick and choose what to keep from their different instructors. I was talking with Wade Schuman (head of the NYAA painting program) and he said that the people who are serious will succeed one way or another (though this was in the context of graduate schools). It’s just whether they are making the paintings that they themselves feel are successful. I just saw the poet/painters show at Tibor de Nagy – the Porters are beautiful – and have been looking at Albert York. These two painters don’t deal with the technical aspects that the Lopez-Garcia or Israel Hershberg deal with but the paintings – like Morandi – are incredibly beautiful in a different way. I suspect that is why Hershberg teaches using great painters that do other things than emulate great technicians of the 19th century. Stuart Shils also teaches this way and it’s so much more open ended and interesting.

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By: bruce https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1130 Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:05:21 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1130 I have to apologize for my grammar and spelling..and my ranting….. I was passing by my computer and was chomping at the bit when I read the post…..also perhaps I should take a longer look at these paintings. (not too long)….or at least see them in real life before beating them up so bad.

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By: bruce https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1129 Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:25:26 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1129 Sorry I’m late to the party Larry, I would have loved to jump in first, although albeit not as article as you all. English is my first language, Valentine, but I must have skipped school that day… Boy you did fine.
Here goes… There are so many artists…. and Those guys, although I hate to admit it, sure can paint! Holy crap! Thank goodness they have taste up their ass. Otherwise it would be hopeless….I ‘d give up painting. I’m obviously joking, sort of. There is a big difference. The difference is taste. Roy Lichenstien said, “if your mother likes it your doing something wrong..” Maybe he took that from somebody else but Ironically I used to gauge what I was doing by my dad and neighbors response…
I once went to Mexico and saw a place they made paintings to ship to every Mall, frame shop and starving artist auctions on the plant. A few guys stretched and primed, one guy slapped in a sky, another clouds.. this one guy was the hero of the joint, cause here could whip out some of the coolest (by Mexican factory standards) looking ducks and deers. They were paintings on canvas and sold more then I will ever..They were art by grandma sofa standards. Ok this guys are a hell of a lot more together then that… I wish I could do what they do… but its missing so much… personality. THEIRS! for one. They fall short on feeling, . they do not even have the decency to be devoid of feeling.In a cool hip way that is truley about honesty, sincerity.. Color can’t hurt!!! Something in the 20th century must have been worth thinking about. Looking at . Hoffmann taught an eclectic taste. Piero Giotto Rembrandt, Picasso…. V. I am giving you a quick but honest answer and in no way to I mean any unkindness… Maybe art is about self..or selflessness…. not an easy thing.. The temple at Delphi( I want to be real smart here but….not in the cards) The TEMPLE AT DELPHI, after all ,did not say , KNOW THY OTHER GUY! Totally – self consciousness, aspriations to paint like the painting my mother would buy at the mall for her sofa…….yuck! I feel much better now….thank you for the opportunity.

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By: Larry https://paintingperceptions.com/interview-with-israel-hershberg/#comment-1128 Sun, 20 Feb 2011 21:37:25 +0000 http://173.254.55.177/~paintiu3/?p=2009#comment-1128 In reply to Valentino.

Thanks for your comment Valentino. I was hoping someone else might jump in to respond to your comment, sorry to have taken so long to respond.

Of course any observant and knowledgeable painter or art viewer could easily see big differences between the styles, intent and overall attitudes and aesthetics of these painters you mention. But your question seems to be more about why is Israel Hershberg’s approach to teaching so different from ateliers who also have students train from casts and other traditional and academic means of learning representational painting.

I’m probably not the best person to answer, but my understanding is that the JSS looks to very different painters and philosophies than most ateliers. Of course they both study from casts, copy from master works and similar things but how and why they study the casts are likely to differ greatly.

My understanding is that ateliers such as Florence Academy of Art and similar who often emulate more French 19th century type academic training and look to painters like Bouguereau, Sargent or their particular atelier’s master/leader for inspiration and emulation. The JSS instead looks to painters like Piero, Titian, Velázquez, Corot and Ingress and also embraces a more modernist aesthetic and study painters like Morandi, Franz Kline, Philip Guston, etc.

They really couldn’t be more different. I don’t have enough time here to get into a very complicated and probably very contentious debate. Perhaps someone else will feel inspired to toss in their .02. Israel made a very strong statement about contemporary academic painting in the interview – this is probably more the central issue we’re dancing around here. I’d love to get into it more – with a raging debate but I need help and more time!

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